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[Music]

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ufos seem to be invading both our skies

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and our news outlets like never before

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and more people are starting to look up

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and are wondering who

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or what might be out there in 2016

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ryan spregg introduced the world to

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countless ufo encounters that had never

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been made public before

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and now in the second edition of his

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book he revisits these events and

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introduces brand new ufo cases

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in somewhere in the skies a human

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approach to the ufo phenomenon

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how have these events changed the lives

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of those involved

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and what might it tell us about the

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phenomenon with in-depth follow-ups

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brand new chapters and detailed

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testimony from credible witnesses and

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insight

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from those in the psychological academic

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and scientific fields

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somewhere in the skies a human approach

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to the ufo phenomenon

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weaves together a story of stories

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attempting to get to the heart of these

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mysteries

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one experience at a time available now

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on amazon

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in both paperback and ebook to learn

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today on somewhere in the skies part one

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of our two-part discussion with former

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law enforcement professional

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and investigative writer tim mcmillan

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tim has made quite a splash on the ufo

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front

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writing groundbreaking articles for

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venues such as

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vice popular mechanics and the war zone

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in part one of this discussion you're

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going to hear what happens when

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tim one of the most skeptical and

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analytical minds

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tackling ufos is faced with a phenomenon

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head on

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himself i've always been somebody who

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really wants to solve mysteries

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and suddenly ufos became a mystery a

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very real mystery for me

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because that's all i saw something and

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then

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we tackled the hard truths of the secret

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pentagon ufo program

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the most recent new york times articles

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the senate intelligence committee bill

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in relation to the ufo task force and

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demystifying the secrecy the sensational

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claims

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and the want to believe in an elaborate

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strategic cover-up of the ufo problem

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there is more info that i'll come out

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with soon

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that will give a lot more hopefully

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it'll give people a lot better

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understanding of

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indeed this ufo problem in government

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and recognize that a lot of things that

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maybe don't make sense on the outside or

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they're attributed to cover-ups and all

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these different things

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they're actually very very normal

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bureaucratic

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and then we confront the

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reality

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of the true ufo issue both the

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vindication for those who believe and

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confirmation

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for those who don't and tim shows us

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that the ufo topic is not only here to

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stay

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but it's arguably taking center stage

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in a world of uncertainty like never

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before

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everything we see right now is

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encouraging for anybody who's ever been

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ridiculed for

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being interested in the ufo subject for

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having their own siding for saying that

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these are real

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it is being treated very much like it is

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real

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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[Music]

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tim mcmillan thank you so much for

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joining me today on somewhere in the

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skies for the first

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time yes no thanks for having me ryan

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this is exciting yeah

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long time listener first time caller

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glad to be here

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thanks man well hey i've been following

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your work for some time

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and uh the stuff you are cranking out

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for some of these

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mainstream outlets has been amazing so

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i've got a

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a long laundry list of questions for you

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we're gonna dive into it a lot tonight

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because

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i want the brutal honest truth on some

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of these things from you

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um because there are some of these

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topics that i will admit i personally

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haven't looked into that we're gonna

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dive into tonight

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so um it'll be good to get a very

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grounded

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uh observation and approach when it

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comes to some of these things

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man so yeah i'm excited if we don't

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start a ride on twitter

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afterwards then i guess it won't be a

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good show exactly

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we will try our best to do that tonight

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for sure

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let's get those flames going um all

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right well

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i guess we'll start with the origin

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story tim that's always a good place to

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start um

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could you maybe tell us a little about

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your background and uh

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yeah what you do currently in relation

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to the ufo topic

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what back then brought you to where you

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are now i guess is a good way to put it

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sure yeah now uh for the bulk of my

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adult life

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from the time i was 21 up until about

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two years ago

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it's almost 17 years i was in law

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enforcement

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and i did a lot of different jobs in law

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enforcement i worked for an agency

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in near savannah georgia um i was a

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violent crimes investigator i was a

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criminal intelligence analyst a

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behavioral profiler

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a whole bunch of things i wore a lot a

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lot of hats and

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i ended up taking early retirement as a

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lieutenant there

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worked as an investigator and

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intelligence analyst for a private firm

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for about a year

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until about a year ago and i guess i

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started dabbling in it

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while i was still in the law firm i

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guess i can say that now i'm no longer

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there so uh

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of uh you know doing freelance

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investigative work

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um investigative journalism on the ufo

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topic

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i kind of came into it the writing end

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of it

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in a weird trajectory because it was

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always uh

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i was covering stuff initially in

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national security

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um national defense world

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it's kind of a in a roundabout way the

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sector i came up from and i've always

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been interested in that that kind of

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purview and so

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as we've all seen you know ufos have

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very much entered that world

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in a tangible sense um

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so yeah i started uh you know i i got

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frustrated that i didn't feel i felt

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that to

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not speak to anyone in particular but i

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just felt like there was a lack of good

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investigative journalism so good

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investigative work and then putting out

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information that was credible and could

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be backed up by evidence

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to the mainstream masses on the ufo

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topic and i felt like

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everything that we saw in the news you

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know going back to the new york times in

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2017 there was only

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really two kind of uh outcomes that

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could have come from this

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and that was either there's something

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real to this

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and so yeah i mean that's a pretty big

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deal or

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that there were these high-level people

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coming from government

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in positions that i was familiar with so

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i kind of had an idea of

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what they do and then significance that

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they serve

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and they're in these positions they're

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just batshit crazy so either outcome for

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me

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is significant and newsworthy i think um

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and so yeah i started

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uh kind of through my uh put my

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investigative skills my police

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and investigative background the bulk of

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my experience into

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seeing could that be applied towards the

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ufo topic yeah and i think it has and

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we'll get to some of the

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those articles uh popular mechanics and

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vice in particular tim but um

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sort of backtracking i i had the honor

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recently of

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telling your story in the second edition

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of my book that just came out this past

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week and

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i was wondering you know a lot of people

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come into this topic having had an

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experience

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not everyone but um it is a good impetus

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for a lot of people to get

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interested in this and look into it

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further to find answers for themselves

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and i'm sure

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as we are gonna learn maybe that was the

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same for you

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but yeah could you maybe tell us a

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little about um

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what happened to you when you were still

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in law enforcement at the time and uh

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you had a uh what we would call it ufo

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encounter yeah no i and actually i want

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to say thank you ryan it was an honor to

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be asked to

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participate in your book because kind of

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indicative of the the rambling intro i

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just gave you i

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always give kind of my professional

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background because that's what people

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are interested in and i skipped the

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whole

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yeah but why ufos uh part of it and

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people don't realize that uh

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there's kind of a longer history with me

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in the ufo subject

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yeah about nine years so not incredibly

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long

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absolutely right and and um

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i i am really eager to i know your book

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just came out i've been really eager to

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take a look at it because i'm sure

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there's a lot of good stories in it

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my origin my ufo origin story begin with

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the sighting that is correct

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uh it was in 2011

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so december 2011 prior to this right i

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really you know i probably had what i

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would consider to be the normal

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interest or curiosity of the ufo subject

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so i didn't

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i'll dismiss it but it wasn't something

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that i was actively seeking or anything

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like that

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it was a toss-up whether whether i was

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going to watch ancient aliens or not

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that deal

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yeah and i you know in that particular

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night

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um it's december 2011. i was a sergeant

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with the police force but i was off at

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the time

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and i was actually visiting another

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friend of mine

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who is also she's a she's a sergeant

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with a

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separate police department and uh we

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were in her front yard just chatting

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i was getting ready to go home at the

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time and she lived in

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00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:11,600
a city uh kind of a suburb of savannah

289
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,720
rinken georgia and i remember that night

290
00:10:19,990 --> 00:10:16,720
in particular because it was

291
00:10:22,949 --> 00:10:20,000
extremely extremely cold for savannah

292
00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:22,959
and that's only important because living

293
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:24,480
on the coast right there

294
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:26,160
it's only on the coldest of nights do

295
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:27,600
you actually get to see a clear starry

296
00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:28,800
night because the humidity

297
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,240
and so we were just chatting kind of

298
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:34,560
taking in the the really brilliant night

299
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:35,839
sky that evening

300
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:39,200
and out of the blue you know all of a

301
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:40,480
sudden there was no

302
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:42,320
forewarning there was no sounds there

303
00:10:46,710 --> 00:10:43,600
was nothing

304
00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:46,720
uh these three lights uh

305
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:48,079
you know i describe it as if someone

306
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:49,920
just flipped a light switch

307
00:10:54,069 --> 00:10:52,720
they just cut on uh perfectly in a

308
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:54,079
straight look row

309
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,600
probably about 30 degrees off the

310
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,440
horizon and

311
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,480
um they were much much bigger

312
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,000
than a star or anything like that so

313
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:03,920
there was no you know much bigger than a

314
00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:04,560
plane

315
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,600
even you know they were about the size

316
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:10,399
as of if you know maybe like a little p

317
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:11,440
like a frozen p

318
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,440
in arm's length that's how bright they

319
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,440
were and big and they were

320
00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:17,360
they weren't white and they were kind of

321
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:19,440
this antique yellow is the best way i

322
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,519
can describe it so

323
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:23,120
it's interesting later as i started

324
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:24,399
looking at this you hear people say i

325
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,200
don't you know it's

326
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:27,680
maybe whitish yellow and i'm like yeah i

327
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:29,279
know exactly what you're talking about

328
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,480
um and they just kind of

329
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,320
sat there motionless so it's in this

330
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:36,240
straight row for probably 30

331
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:39,360
45 seconds maybe a minute at most and

332
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:40,800
then it was like somebody just flipped a

333
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:42,560
light switch off again

334
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:45,680
and they just cut off and

335
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,920
you know this was one of these things uh

336
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:49,760
you know there's a lot of times we see

337
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,920
stuff you know a satellite or something

338
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:52,720
in the sky

339
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:55,920
oh what's that um that was not one of

340
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:56,639
that was not

341
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:58,480
this type of experience you know this

342
00:12:02,790 --> 00:11:59,760
was a oh

343
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:02,800
what is that i mean it was coming

344
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,920
attention commanding yeah and um they

345
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,040
cut off

346
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,240
and there was you know the sky went back

347
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:11,839
to normal for probably another

348
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:14,320
30 40 seconds maybe a minute and then

349
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:15,680
all of a sudden

350
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,040
the original first three that we'd seen

351
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:21,120
came came back on just like somebody

352
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:22,240
flipped the light switch

353
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:24,160
and uh but this time they were

354
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,360
accompanied by two more

355
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:27,120
and they were all in a straight row

356
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,639
except for

357
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:31,279
the the the new the two new ones were a

358
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:32,240
little offset

359
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,160
from the first three and so you've got

360
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,480
these five

361
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:39,200
big bright lights motionless no sound

362
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:40,240
nothing

363
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,760
totally stationary and when all five

364
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:44,959
were on

365
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:47,440
and i i'm very cautious when i tell this

366
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,160
part

367
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:51,120
because i my background even in law

368
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:52,399
enforcement a lot of what i did was

369
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,680
cognitive psychology that's

370
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:55,279
that's my academic background actually

371
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:57,440
so my degree is in and i did a lot of

372
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:57,920
work

373
00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:00,560
with that um training and even in the

374
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:01,600
ufo field

375
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:05,040
i will get into that i'm sure yeah

376
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,680
i was very cautious because i understand

377
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,240
that

378
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,880
uh your brain tries to make sense of

379
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,120
things you don't understand and so

380
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,680
i say this and say it appeared to me

381
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,680
though once all five are on

382
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:19,920
that against the ambient light of the

383
00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:22,240
horizon so the city lights did you see

384
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,480
the glow now there was this giant

385
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:27,440
rectangular shape

386
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:30,240
the object that these lights were

387
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:31,279
attached to

388
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,560
that appear to be blocking out the

389
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:34,800
ambient light and so it was low on the

390
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:35,519
horizon

391
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:38,480
and um they stayed like that for about a

392
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:39,199
minute

393
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:42,480
and never moved never heard a sound

394
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,920
um the friend that was with me she um

395
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:47,440
you know she was pretty freaked out by

396
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:49,920
it i was just fascinated

397
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:53,519
and um yeah i remember at the time

398
00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:55,839
that uh the only time in my life that

399
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,519
i've ever had an android phone

400
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,279
was then and that stupid thing would

401
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:01,040
never work whenever i needed it to and

402
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:02,480
this was one of those times

403
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:06,000
and i was fumbling with it and it like

404
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,680
rebooted and so it's interesting you

405
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:09,279
hear people go why are there good videos

406
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:10,160
and stuff and i'm like

407
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,000
well at least in my case i can tell you

408
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:14,959
why and i wish there was a good reason

409
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,639
um it just wouldn't work but uh

410
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:20,240
there it was and when it after about a

411
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:21,839
minute the lights went out

412
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:24,000
and it was it was like the sky just

413
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:25,360
returned to normal

414
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,639
and there was no there was no airplane

415
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,240
traffic there's no helicopter traffic

416
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,240
where the area there in savannah is kind

417
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:33,839
of just a hub

418
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,399
of uh air traffic especially a lot of

419
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:38,560
military bases around there

420
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,760
and in fact the for the 2015

421
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,839
events that are now famous thanks to the

422
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:45,120
videos

423
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,240
those occurred not far off the coast uh

424
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:51,199
from savannah but um there was just

425
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,680
nothing

426
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,760
and they disappeared and so that was

427
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:55,920
kind of that was the first moment when

428
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,440
this

429
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,880
i've always been somebody who really

430
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,639
wants to solve mysteries

431
00:15:05,189 --> 00:15:03,440
and suddenly ufos became a mystery a

432
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:05,199
very real mystery for me

433
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:08,399
because that's all i saw something

434
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,440
and you know what was really incredible

435
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,440
for me after this sighting is i

436
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,639
first of all it's incredible i made it

437
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,720
home because i i remember driving i

438
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:17,920
think halfway with my head out the

439
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,720
window

440
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,399
freezing my ass off but hoping i'd see

441
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,240
it again yeah

442
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,639
um but i got you know i got home and

443
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:26,240
like everybody else and

444
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:28,399
um who when they want to figure

445
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:29,759
something out you start googling and

446
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,519
everything and i

447
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,680
uh it's the first time i stumbled upon

448
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:34,800
mufon

449
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:37,839
and at that time

450
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,880
they didn't place their citing their

451
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,240
initial sighting reports behind a

452
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,000
paywall or anything so you could

453
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:47,120
see exciting reports people had made and

454
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:48,399
i was

455
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:51,519
stunned to discover that

456
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,040
someone else about 20 30 miles

457
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,600
just west of us so town up just west of

458
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:58,480
us

459
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,680
had already reported the exact i mean

460
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,680
they just they saw it too it was

461
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:04,800
identical

462
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:07,759
at the it was about 50 minutes before we

463
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,000
saw

464
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,040
it and so um

465
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,800
that was when not there was any doubt

466
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,320
prior to that

467
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:17,519
that this was real um but the fact that

468
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:19,360
you had someone else as well that i

469
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,040
still i have no clue who that person is

470
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:22,959
so so completely separate independent

471
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:23,920
eyewitness

472
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:27,040
um confirmed the exact same thing it it

473
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:28,480
was very real

474
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:31,199
and um though we never saw it move

475
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:32,639
obviously because of where they were

476
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,440
located

477
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:35,600
in the county ovary this was something

478
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,199
that was

479
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,920
moving somehow it was it was conducting

480
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,199
flight

481
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,839
and so that really that is what uh

482
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:45,120
really vaulted my

483
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,880
interest into the entire topic of ufos

484
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,720
um a lot of people don't know that's why

485
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:52,000
i was glad to kind of share that in your

486
00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:53,040
book because that

487
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,320
people don't realize it kind of started

488
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,680
about nine years ago and there is a

489
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:57,279
personal reason for it wow

490
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,720
see and that's awesome man because i

491
00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:01,120
know a lot of um a lot of the discussion

492
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:02,000
that goes on

493
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:05,839
on uh we'll call it ufo twitter people

494
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,000
think you're this you know this hardened

495
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:10,319
skeptic um because of your background

496
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:11,520
and this and that

497
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,799
and um that's really important and to

498
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,720
to see you're just human like everyone

499
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:18,640
else out there having an experience you

500
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:19,760
can't explain

501
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,799
um it lends a a level of legitimacy and

502
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:23,760
credibility

503
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,079
that you yourself have seen these things

504
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,559
in our skies like so many other people

505
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:30,640
and i want to ask before we move on to

506
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,679
sort of where

507
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,679
your interest went from there and how

508
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:35,120
you implemented your

509
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,039
you know your skill set into that you

510
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:39,200
worked a lot of like graveyard shifts

511
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,640
and stuff when you were

512
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:42,960
on the police force and doing security

513
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,840
and whatnot

514
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,280
and i remember in the book you

515
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:47,600
specifically mentioning like i saw some

516
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,640
strange

517
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:50,640
you know flight patterns and things in

518
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:51,679
the air in my

519
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:54,400
all my years right now in 2020 tim do

520
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:55,280
you think

521
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:57,039
you'll ever know what it was you saw

522
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:58,400
that night or is there

523
00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:01,039
do you have maybe some ideas of what you

524
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,840
saw or

525
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:04,080
is it legitimately still a mystery to

526
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,960
you oh

527
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,240
yeah no it's legitimately still a

528
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:09,120
mystery i i really don't know right

529
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,840
and i don't know i you know i'm very

530
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,120
comfortable saying i don't know

531
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:15,440
a lot of things so i'm comfortable i

532
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:16,640
know what i know and i don't know what i

533
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:17,360
don't know

534
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:24,080
i do know just like you mentioned yeah

535
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:25,360
the last six years

536
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:28,240
of my police career i was the duty

537
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,760
officer which

538
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,600
you know sounds nice they give you a

539
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,919
rank and a salary and everything but it

540
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:35,200
actually just meant that you're kind of

541
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,840
the

542
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,840
nighttime shopkeeper so you i was in

543
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,160
charge of all police services when the

544
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:42,080
other bosses were asleep so it just

545
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,440
means shitty hours um

546
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,960
and so yeah the first six years i work 3

547
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:47,200
pm to 3 a.m and

548
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:48,720
savannah like i said is surrounded you

549
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:51,440
have hunter army airfield fort stewart

550
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,559
we have the 165th air force reserve

551
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:57,360
right there gulfstream uh marine air

552
00:19:01,990 --> 00:18:59,039
station buford i mean there's just

553
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:02,000
it's surrounded and so one thing when

554
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,600
you're working nights so consistently

555
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:05,200
there for years you do you learn the

556
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,320
flight patterns

557
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,640
and so you learn where the flight lanes

558
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,559
are between bases you learn what is

559
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,320
normal what's not normal

560
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,960
um i saw a lot of weird stuff late at

561
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,799
night people be very surprised at kind

562
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,799
of just a strange

563
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:21,520
uh military type activity that goes on

564
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,720
in those areas at two

565
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,200
three o'clock in the morning um but i

566
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:26,720
knew it was always

567
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:29,840
military and it was always ours um

568
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,799
there's nothing weirder than seeing a uh

569
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,360
one of the

570
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:35,760
drone helicopters come flying over about

571
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:37,520
300 feet overhead you can look in and

572
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:39,039
see there's no pilot you're like oh my

573
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:39,760
god

574
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:43,200
but um and even weird you know i

575
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,880
they would do a lot of training the

576
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,320
f-22s would come in

577
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:48,400
and so they do these uh red team blue

578
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,360
team where you have

579
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,720
jets that are pretending to be the bad

580
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:52,480
guys and they go flying out over the

581
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,120
ocean

582
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:54,960
dog fighting playing games and so i saw

583
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:56,559
a lot of this but

584
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,760
what i saw that night was

585
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,600
not consistent with any of that and it

586
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:03,200
was out it wasn't in

587
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,679
the flight lanes it wasn't in the normal

588
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,080
spots that i knew everything

589
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,320
and so yeah i you know i guess i don't

590
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:12,240
know i'm definitely always said i don't

591
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,039
have a prosaic explanation for it

592
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,760
but at the same time my my sighting in

593
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,159
particular was not nearly as dramatic

594
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:23,039
as a lot of people's you know even

595
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,720
commander fravor and some of the more

596
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,400
famous ones who know what they saw

597
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:29,280
mine didn't challenge my version of

598
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,919
reality

599
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,440
let me put it that way because it i

600
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:33,440
didn't see it perform anything

601
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:35,679
that just wasn't characteristic with

602
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,960
flight performance

603
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:39,120
but at the same time i don't have

604
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:40,000
anything

605
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:42,159
that could match that you know flares it

606
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,120
wasn't flares

607
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:45,280
i know that i don't know i don't know

608
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:46,240
what it was

609
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:49,760
but yeah i don't know hopefully one day

610
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,320
but i don't know hey man best answer

611
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,320
anyone could ever give is i don't know i

612
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,080
agree with you 100

613
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:57,600
on that because i don't think any of us

614
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,440
truly know including the government

615
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:00,880
which we will get to

616
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:04,480
but um yeah i guess um sort of wrapping

617
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:04,799
up

618
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,039
your tim mcmillan as a ufo witness

619
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:12,080
um your background in cognitive science

620
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:13,120
how did you

621
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:16,640
the ufo topic

622
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,240
thank you for asking me ryan and that's

623
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:19,600
why i said i appreciate having the

624
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:21,120
opportunity to share

625
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:22,640
i've never shied away from sharing my

626
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,960
exciting experience and i

627
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:26,400
really don't nobody ever asked this

628
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:27,440
maybe it's my fault because i don't

629
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,320
share it but

630
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:30,880
um a lot of people don't realize that

631
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:32,480
yeah long before i started writing

632
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:33,360
articles

633
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:35,679
or anything for popular mechanics or

634
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:36,960
vice

635
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:39,360
i was researching the ufo topic from

636
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,559
that background

637
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,159
in cognitive psychology and in

638
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:44,960
particular my focus was on perception

639
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,840
studies

640
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,840
and perception-based research and kind

641
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:49,520
of you know like how we form

642
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:52,080
reality what how's camouflage work these

643
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:53,919
types of things and how

644
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,480
i helped design and develop some courses

645
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:57,600
for both the state and the federal

646
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,080
government

647
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:01,039
for how you can increase awareness and

648
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,760
perception

649
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,080
for officer safety or just plain be

650
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,480
better cops or better law enforcement or

651
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,640
better you know security in general how

652
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:09,840
you can pick out

653
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,360
the right patterns and um my approach

654
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:15,360
for the first seven years of this

655
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,120
was uh i i purposely avoided

656
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:21,520
what we will just i'm going to lump into

657
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:23,440
this kind of ad hoc group called the ufo

658
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:24,400
community

659
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:27,760
um just because you know as a researcher

660
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:28,320
that

661
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:30,559
you know the problem when you're engaged

662
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,760
in anything like this

663
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,159
is um psychology research is very

664
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:35,760
difficult because the object of study is

665
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:37,600
being studied by the object of study

666
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:40,640
meaning the human mind so you try to you

667
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:41,039
know

668
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,559
kick out anything that could form your

669
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:44,799
own biases in there so i try to avoid

670
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:46,960
other people's theories hypothesis

671
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,919
and instead um i examined the literature

672
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,520
that was out there and felt like there

673
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:53,600
was one area that i didn't see a lot of

674
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,919
on i think jacques valet had really

675
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:57,520
probably would be the closest and that

676
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,000
was

677
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,400
you know tracking down other people that

678
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:01,919
had had sightings

679
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:05,440
and trying to examine this this strange

680
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,039
hypothesis of wondering

681
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:10,080
if is what people see

682
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,480
you know what they think they're seeing

683
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:14,720
is that really what they're seeing

684
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:17,600
and this is strange but it our brains

685
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:18,080
are strange

686
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:21,120
life strange it relates to how do we

687
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:21,760
process

688
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,799
information when we have no other a

689
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,640
language to describe it which is

690
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:28,400
vitally important i i happen to be a

691
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,919
huge advocate of

692
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:31,840
cognitive linguistic theory which means

693
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:33,919
that our language helps form our

694
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,280
cognitive perceptions

695
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:37,679
and so a great example of this and uh

696
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:39,200
usually blows everybody's mind i tell

697
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:40,400
them google it and check it out

698
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:42,559
but don't just look at the the popular

699
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:43,840
science articles you know

700
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:45,600
there is some good empirical studies

701
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:47,039
look at that because that's we'll give

702
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:48,320
you the good stuff but

703
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:51,520
there's a host of good empirical studies

704
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,240
um that showing that human beings

705
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:55,919
couldn't perceive the color

706
00:24:02,950 --> 00:23:59,360
blue uh up until about 2000 years ago

707
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:02,960
so really um yeah sounds so crazy

708
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:03,440
doesn't it

709
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,600
because blue is everywhere around it's

710
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:07,840
the sky what the hell the sky look like

711
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:10,880
um but yeah no i mean

712
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:12,799
there's some great studies there you

713
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:14,320
know in fact the

714
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,840
blue is not mentioned blue doesn't

715
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,520
become mentioned until

716
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:20,080
egypt really and egypt i give this kind

717
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,679
of 2000 year window but

718
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,440
i think egypt has some references a

719
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,960
little further back than that but but

720
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,240
especially in europe and

721
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:28,559
in the east the blue is not referenced

722
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:29,279
in any

723
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,840
literature uh what is often called blue

724
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:33,840
or sapphire in the bible is a

725
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,720
mistranslation of the hebrew but uh

726
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:37,919
people didn't see blue

727
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,919
so what we're talking about here is the

728
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:40,960
idea that

729
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,360
if something is just a visual stimuli

730
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:45,360
and it you have no inference from it you

731
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:46,320
don't know what

732
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,520
your brain kicks it out

733
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,559
and as as weird as that sounds it's

734
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:55,039
you know it's interesting that ufos are

735
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,480
considered fringe science but the stuff

736
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:57,600
that's real science is

737
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:00,640
pretty crazy as well but that's

738
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,200
accepted science you know our um the

739
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,720
thalamus in our brain just to get a

740
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:07,039
little nerdy here acts as a gatekeeper

741
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:10,159
and so there's a lot of extraneous uh

742
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:13,039
external stimuli that every moment gets

743
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,480
kicked out by our brains

744
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,159
because it's like a screw that that's

745
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,919
not important yeah you know

746
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,200
and there's a lot of good studies now

747
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,039
coming out on lsd

748
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,880
that's what the lsd does it just throws

749
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:24,640
the thalamus wide open and floods with

750
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,679
all these signals

751
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:28,320
um and so you know it's not doesn't mean

752
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:29,840
you're seeing a pink elephant floating

753
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,600
by if you're on lsd it just means that

754
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:33,120
your brain is picking up a stimuli that

755
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:34,400
may normally be kicked out

756
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:37,440
and then trying to interpret it the best

757
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,240
that it can

758
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:41,520
and so that was how i approached it was

759
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,600
examining is the possibility here that

760
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:45,600
people are seeing something

761
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,080
it still can be sentient it could be

762
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:49,919
cognitive it could be intelligent

763
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,960
it could um be interactive

764
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:53,919
you know all the things that we

765
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,320
associate with all the other hypothesis

766
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:58,640
of interdimensionals aliens all these

767
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:59,440
things are

768
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,039
i guess technically still on the table

769
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:02,960
but my question was do they look like

770
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:03,440
what we

771
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,200
think we're looking at and there's some

772
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,360
interesting evidence that that could

773
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:11,120
suggest maybe not

774
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:12,640
for example if you look at the

775
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:14,320
literature you know you can go back to

776
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:14,880
the

777
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,679
and uh people's versions of ufos and

778
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:23,600
these what we would call now ufo flap

779
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:24,480
that were

780
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,080
uh mechanical air ships

781
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,799
that were piloted by human beings that's

782
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:31,600
what they saw

783
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,760
that's what they reported but this

784
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:35,520
coincided with the

785
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:37,200
really the kind of technological zygas

786
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:39,279
to the top we knew we were on the cusp

787
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,880
of mechanical air flight it hadn't been

788
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:41,919
developed yet

789
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,799
and so you know fast forward uh i'll

790
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:46,400
just skip into the 40s with the fly

791
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:47,440
saucers but

792
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,720
um they didn't become alien until we

793
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,640
realized that after rocket technology

794
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,559
was being developed and

795
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,559
that the idea of leaving the earth's

796
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,080
atmosphere was a

797
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,480
potential possibility it was possible so

798
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:02,000
once it becomes possible that we could

799
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:03,440
possibly do it well then somebody else

800
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:04,799
could too and come here

801
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:07,840
and um kind of the disc lenticular shape

802
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,279
lost a time but but back in the late 30s

803
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,600
early 40s this was kind of perceived to

804
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:14,960
be the aerospace

805
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:17,039
design for the future uh you know it was

806
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:18,640
gonna be aerodynamic this is this is

807
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,240
what we're going to look like

808
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,840
and then you know if you continue to

809
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:23,679
kind of fast forward even today i think

810
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:24,240
that

811
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:25,440
you'll hear a lot of the leading

812
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,760
hypothesis is that these are

813
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,720
these could be ai drones of some

814
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:32,480
extraterrestrial origin this type of

815
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:32,960
thing

816
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:36,320
but it just coincides with what you know

817
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:38,080
it's always just a step ahead of what

818
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:39,679
our technology

819
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:42,240
potential um and how these things are

820
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,600
perceived so they you know

821
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:45,520
they look like tic tacs now they look

822
00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:46,960
like something else

823
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,600
they kind of change form i wish that i

824
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:51,760
could give you a firm conclusion

825
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,320
to that there's several historians i

826
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,159
interviewed in the book as well

827
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:58,240
and scientists and i'm so happy you

828
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,200
brought this up

829
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,679
because they all sort of you can tell

830
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,360
they're on the same path

831
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,440
in how they're viewing the ufo

832
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,600
phenomenon and how we perceive it

833
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,840
and i think you're right it's it's this

834
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,039
aspiration

835
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:13,600
and this like what could be you know

836
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,320
where we

837
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,399
our pilots are seeing something so far

838
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:17,919
advanced and sophisticated

839
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,640
that we don't personally possess and you

840
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,399
know not until we started

841
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,320
looking to the stars and wanting to

842
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:26,080
travel elsewhere to

843
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,000
maybe find life that's what becomes this

844
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,120
this lore and these

845
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,279
sightings throughout time is like you

846
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:36,960
said that one step ahead of us

847
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:39,360
all the way up and right now and for a

848
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,240
while it's been

849
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,640
alien you know and like you said maybe

850
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:43,520
eventually it'll be

851
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,600
interdimensional maybe we'll we'll

852
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:48,000
circle back to bigfoot coming off a ufo

853
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:48,880
i don't know man

854
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:51,760
but i mean that'll be fun yeah right but

855
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:54,320
no it is very fascinating and um

856
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,720
when you look at the decades of ufos

857
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:57,600
like you said

858
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,480
airships up to saucers to triangles now

859
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,159
we're seeing more

860
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:04,080
stuff that represents what could be some

861
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:05,200
sort of unmanned

862
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:08,240
drone activity so yeah no i think um

863
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,679
i think it's a really interesting

864
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,760
approach that you took and and something

865
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:13,120
i think we need to look

866
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:16,720
further into um but okay so taking

867
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:19,200
taking off the uh the tim mcmillan

868
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:20,399
witness hat

869
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:24,159
um let's move to to some hard

870
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:27,760
investigative journalism tim um

871
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:30,080
done we gotta go there man this is gonna

872
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:31,200
be fun um

873
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,320
let's paint a picture of this massive

874
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:36,720
article you wrote in february of 2020

875
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:38,960
for popular mechanics it was titled

876
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,080
inside the pentagon's secret ufo program

877
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:44,559
and you unearthed some pretty

878
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:46,240
interesting stuff and i think you

879
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,159
dropped this if i can remember

880
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,720
on valentine's day i think or it was

881
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,399
right around there

882
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,000
it was the perfect gift you could have

883
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,799
given me tim for valentine's day so um

884
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:58,799
yeah maybe tell us a little about this

885
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,640
article and maybe some of your biggest

886
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,120
takeaways you personally gained from uh

887
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,600
looking into this one sure yes and it

888
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,600
was on valentine's day in fact uh

889
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:09,679
our good buddy micah hanks will tell you

890
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:11,520
he refers to that as the valentine's day

891
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:12,399
massacre

892
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,919
um that's perfect yeah i think i think

893
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:17,440
for the pentagon's sake because it put a

894
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:17,840
lot of

895
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:21,679
yeah well first of all

896
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:24,080
you know nothing but respect and love

897
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:25,520
for popular mechanics who

898
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:28,000
you know i'm a freelancer and they

899
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,760
allowed me to

900
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,360
share that entire article in its

901
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,360
totality because it was a monsters

902
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,600
you know about a six seven thousand word

903
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,120
piece which anybody who's ever written

904
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:39,520
for publications will tell you that yeah

905
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:41,679
most editors are like give me a thousand

906
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:42,559
fifteen hundred words

907
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,960
tops if you're lucky yeah yeah no but uh

908
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,720
really that article kind of exemplifies

909
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:51,360
my approach to it and the info that i i

910
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:54,399
try to share i don't work in volume

911
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,520
that's what's fortunate about being

912
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,919
freelance is it allows me to

913
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,000
pitch something when i'm ready and not

914
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:01,840
also have to be assigned stuff and so i

915
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:02,640
don't have to

916
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:05,919
turn smaller pieces and instead

917
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,840
what that article was is that really the

918
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:09,760
accumulation of just what it said

919
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:12,159
over a year or more worth of

920
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:13,679
investigation

921
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:18,240
into the atip the advanced aerial threat

922
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,519
identification program or osap the

923
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,600
oh lord which is uh the advanced

924
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:26,399
aerospace weapon systems program

925
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:29,760
something you know um

926
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:31,760
right on alphabet soup always with these

927
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:33,279
things

928
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:34,799
yeah just stick to the three-letter

929
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,830
[Music]

930
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,679
what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

931
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:45,519
just dropping in to remind you about our

932
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,159
patreon

933
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:48,240
campaign somewhere in the skies is

934
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:49,600
always free to consume

935
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,519
but it's not free to create so if you

936
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,760
want to help the show on a monthly basis

937
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:56,000
we have tons of rewards for you in

938
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,799
return

939
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:58,480
including shout outs on the show and

940
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:01,440
website bonus content and episodes

941
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,399
and free merch want to be my guest or

942
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,080
pick a topic for the show

943
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,240
you can do that too so if you'd like to

944
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:10,320
learn more and to help support the show

945
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:13,760
visit patreon.com summerskies

946
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:24,149
but yeah so those official programs that

947
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:25,360
were being sponsored for

948
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:27,600
run by the government in some capacity

949
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:30,240
was my investigations into them

950
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,799
you know what did they involve yeah and

951
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,799
and really when i began these things

952
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:36,640
uh you know as recently as last year i

953
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:38,320
think there was still a lot of

954
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:41,200
controversy over did they even exist at

955
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,679
all

956
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:43,360
or were they being embellished and

957
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:45,120
everything and so

958
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,159
i i approached that article just like i

959
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:49,760
approached any of them which

960
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,799
is for me it's as if i'm presenting a

961
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:53,679
case to court

962
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:56,320
so i'm not a classical king journalist i

963
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,760
tell people i'm not a journalist i'm an

964
00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:59,200
investigator who will write stuff

965
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:02,399
sometimes but i go with what i know

966
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:05,440
and that is can i present a case

967
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:08,000
that i believe provides more than enough

968
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,960
probable cause

969
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:11,519
it could end up in a conviction of

970
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:13,200
something beyond a reasonable doubt and

971
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:14,720
that's what i get before i present that

972
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:16,080
and for this

973
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,519
that's what it was was examining a was

974
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,120
was the government officially looking at

975
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:23,039
ufos as it been reported

976
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:26,320
in what capacity what scope and so it

977
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,919
kind of splinters in from there because

978
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:28,399
it was

979
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,840
you know you had some denials about uh

980
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:34,559
luis salazanda a former employee with

981
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,679
the under secretary of defense for

982
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:37,360
intelligence office former executive

983
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:39,679
you said he had ran this ufo program

984
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:41,840
from 2012 until he resigned

985
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:44,559
in 2017 and it was you know the pentagon

986
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:45,039
had

987
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:47,120
disputed this even i mean there was just

988
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:48,640
a lot of confusion

989
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:51,440
going on and this was my attempt to get

990
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,320
away

991
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:55,200
or to to get a handle on that and i feel

992
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,000
like i did

993
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:58,320
uh i walked away from it you talk about

994
00:34:02,630 --> 00:33:59,360
the biggest takeaways

995
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:02,640
is that i think there was an absolute

996
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:03,679
just

997
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:06,480
wealth of evidence in my opinion both

998
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,360
both physical

999
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:10,399
and testimonial and people that i talked

1000
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,800
to

1001
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,480
stuff that i tracked down the showing

1002
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:14,159
indeed you know the

1003
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,359
the us government had commissioned a

1004
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,919
that the offsat program and indeed it

1005
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:21,760
was a ufo program

1006
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,760
one of the most strikingly interesting

1007
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:25,919
things that i was able to discover

1008
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,879
was how the government was able to kind

1009
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:30,879
of deny it and why the lack of

1010
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:31,839
information

1011
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,960
and this was because they they ran it

1012
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,440
uh similar to what's called a carve out

1013
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,280
when you when you you see carveouts

1014
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,200
typically in the intelligence

1015
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:43,919
industry and technology industry almost

1016
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,639
exclusively defense some acquisitions

1017
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,480
but this just means hidden programs so

1018
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,720
it means uh in this case

1019
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:52,800
if you read the solicitation order or if

1020
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,720
you read the materials for what this

1021
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,159
program was supposed to be

1022
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:58,720
it read like they were examining

1023
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,359
advanced aerospace platforms from

1024
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:03,520
40 years in the future so what's the

1025
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,599
landscape in the aerospace industry

1026
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:07,119
in the defense aerospace industry going

1027
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,720
to look like 40 years from now

1028
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:11,280
and that was true they weren't lying

1029
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:12,079
though

1030
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:15,280
however what they were examining

1031
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,200
to try to get an idea of where the

1032
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,760
technological innovation was going

1033
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:22,160
had to do with examining ufos and so

1034
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:22,880
there you know

1035
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:25,520
the object of study was ufos and i mean

1036
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,560
there was

1037
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,800
there's no doubt in my mind that that

1038
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,560
went on and then

1039
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:32,240
after that was shut down you know

1040
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,320
defunded in 2012.

1041
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:36,320
there was some idea of whether or not

1042
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,760
you know did it carry on

1043
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:40,160
you know luis salazando said he did

1044
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,880
carry it on

1045
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:42,240
brought it over with him to the

1046
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:43,839
secretary of defense's office and

1047
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,320
frankly

1048
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,800
i was able to find that there's a ton of

1049
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:48,320
compelling evidence that shows

1050
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,960
indeed that happened and it wasn't it's

1051
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,160
still to this day i think a lot of

1052
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,400
people get confused and they think

1053
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:56,720
where's the atip office as if there's

1054
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:57,440
like this

1055
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:00,079
building with a flagpole out front um

1056
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,040
and that's not how

1057
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:03,119
that's not how it works and in fact

1058
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,160
frankly

1059
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:06,160
uh for me a lot of things that other

1060
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,680
people questioned and draw up

1061
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,599
conspiracies and think are weird

1062
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:11,280
in my experience in dealing with just

1063
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,119
the intelligence industry in the defense

1064
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:14,720
industry i was like now this is totally

1065
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:15,280
normal

1066
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,560
this is exactly how things happen um

1067
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,079
you know it was the program was what's

1068
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:21,680
called bootstrapped which meant it

1069
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,160
wasn't

1070
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:24,720
appropriated funding but yet it was

1071
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:26,640
officially approved and so it was kind

1072
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,520
of

1073
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,520
borrowing money from other programs and

1074
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:31,119
stealing from paul to feed peter and

1075
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:32,560
mary but still engaging

1076
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:35,680
in this uh endeavor to examine once all

1077
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,320
sap ended in atip examining

1078
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:41,200
these encounters of what they're now

1079
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:42,880
referring to as unidentified aerial

1080
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,079
phenomena

1081
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,800
by people in the united states military

1082
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:49,119
if that in itself is really interesting

1083
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,119
and there's no doubt in my mind that

1084
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,520
i don't know everything they examined

1085
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:57,839
but that whatever it was and

1086
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:00,400
through a lot of conversations with him

1087
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,079
especially after the articles

1088
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:03,920
for stuff i'm working on in the future

1089
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:04,800
and everything but a lot of

1090
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:05,920
conversations with

1091
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:09,200
mr elizondo you know whatever he did see

1092
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:10,400
and whatever they were doing was

1093
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:11,920
compelling enough that he was willing to

1094
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,280
quit his job

1095
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,520
and bring it out in the open maybe into

1096
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,200
this weird medium that people don't

1097
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,720
understand with time to long

1098
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,560
but if i had to say anything the biggest

1099
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:22,000
takeaways from that article

1100
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,560
for me is that everything that we had

1101
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,320
heard kind of up to that point

1102
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,000
about the government's interest in ufos

1103
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:30,960
and there was compelling evidence

1104
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:32,720
both for the existence of these objects

1105
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:34,400
and uh that the government was

1106
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,520
interested in that

1107
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,760
is absolutely true i think the evidence

1108
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,599
showed that but for me i think that was

1109
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:41,119
the biggest takeaways that allowed me to

1110
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:43,040
move forward and go okay well that all

1111
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,920
is real

1112
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:46,000
so now let's keep going forward and i

1113
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:47,119
think a lot of people

1114
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,720
were like yeah yeah but it was real for

1115
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,560
me anyway and i'm like yeah

1116
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:53,280
but it wasn't for me yet there wasn't

1117
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:54,079
that compelling

1118
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:56,240
there wasn't enough evidence for me like

1119
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:57,520
i said to bring a court case

1120
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:59,599
but i think so now all right and so it's

1121
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:00,560
it's interesting

1122
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:03,359
and and i think you know it's ex vitally

1123
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:04,320
important

1124
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:07,760
that uh these things do get scrutinized

1125
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:08,240
and

1126
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,920
uh you know criticized in some ways um

1127
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,359
for the claims that they're bringing

1128
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:15,440
forth you know when the original story

1129
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:17,119
broke in the new york times

1130
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:20,079
like yeah good fine this is amazing but

1131
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:21,280
then you start seeing

1132
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:23,280
like well let's really look at it and

1133
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,720
see if it is what they

1134
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:26,560
say it is and this and that and i think

1135
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:28,160
for me the takeaway from your article

1136
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:29,200
tim is uh

1137
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:31,520
pretty much what you said but that this

1138
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:34,560
was a ufo program because that was

1139
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:36,800
the contention for a while is did they

1140
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:38,160
actually study

1141
00:38:41,589 --> 00:38:40,000
unidentified aerial phenomena are we

1142
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:41,599
talking you know

1143
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:45,040
um rivaling nations aerospace programs

1144
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:46,400
or are we talking about

1145
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:50,240
a non-human technology being displayed

1146
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:50,720
and

1147
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:52,960
i think what your article did is it

1148
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:54,800
cleared up a lot of misconceptions

1149
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:57,440
it showed the stovepiping and the

1150
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,960
complexity of

1151
00:39:02,950 --> 00:39:00,320
the government we always look at the

1152
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,960
government as uh this capital g

1153
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:04,960
the government knows what ufos are

1154
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:06,320
they're not telling us well what does

1155
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,880
that mean

1156
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,480
you know i mean the government is made

1157
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:10,960
up of hundreds of thousands of people

1158
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:13,680
and like you said different programs so

1159
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,560
yeah i think

1160
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:16,720
i think it really cleared up a lot in

1161
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:17,839
there there's

1162
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,040
so much more so that'll be coming out

1163
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:23,200
soon and i hate i don't like teasing

1164
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,160
stuff and so

1165
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:27,359
don't call it a tease but there is more

1166
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:28,960
info that i'll come out with

1167
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:32,400
soon that will give a lot more

1168
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,839
hopefully it'll give people a lot better

1169
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:35,760
understanding of indeed

1170
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:39,040
this ufo problem in government

1171
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,440
and recognize that a lot of things that

1172
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,880
maybe don't make sense on the outside or

1173
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:46,560
they're attributed to cover-ups and all

1174
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,760
these different things

1175
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:50,160
they're actually very very normal

1176
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:51,359
bureaucratic

1177
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:54,880
and you know this confusion and

1178
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,000
things that go on government

1179
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:58,000
is largely when it comes to this topic

1180
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,359
is largely from the fact that

1181
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:01,440
you know in the eyes of the department

1182
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,200
of defense policy

1183
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,599
uh official policy such a rigid

1184
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:06,800
structure

1185
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,240
as department of defense it lacks any

1186
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:12,640
framework and so therefore

1187
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:15,119
ufos and the normal channels of things

1188
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,160
don't exist

1189
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,880
like even to this day that the term uap

1190
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,240
which they formally use

1191
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:22,160
and has been approved by the general

1192
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:23,520
counsel's office

1193
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:25,599
it's not an official joint chiefs

1194
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,839
acronym that seems silly to people but

1195
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,599
it really is i mean like the words that

1196
00:40:33,109 --> 00:40:31,200
are used in the department of defense

1197
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:33,119
just so many things are very very rigid

1198
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,119
and all policy outlined and

1199
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,760
for whatever reason ufos are not and

1200
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:39,680
therefore it's very difficult

1201
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:42,960
to get any kind of concise

1202
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,800
information or really to be concise even

1203
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:46,640
if you're working in

1204
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:49,359
that system so you know public affairs

1205
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,160
people

1206
00:40:53,589 --> 00:40:52,480
you know i don't think there's any overt

1207
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,599
cover-up

1208
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,920
by a lot of people it's very very human

1209
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,800
and normal

1210
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,640
now one of the things that'll come out

1211
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,200
is why was general mattis never

1212
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:03,040
you know because luella sandoz said i

1213
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,720
wanted to you know he wanted to get this

1214
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:06,079
in front of the secretary of defense and

1215
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,000
above or why didn't that happen

1216
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,520
and um i i talked to those people

1217
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:13,920
the advisers that were there that were

1218
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,800
briefed by

1219
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,400
luke who confirmed everything he had

1220
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:18,160
said that far

1221
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,359
and being briefed all the way back to

1222
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:22,000
late 2016. but the reasons it didn't

1223
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:22,319
move

1224
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,960
up once you hear them you're like oh man

1225
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:26,640
that makes so much sense

1226
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:29,200
it's not nearly it's not nearly as

1227
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,160
exciting as people

1228
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:32,400
probably want but it makes it real world

1229
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:33,280
and

1230
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,319
i think that's important you know

1231
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:39,040
absolutely yeah once it's a real world

1232
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:40,400
it's real it's not

1233
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,440
the world of fantasy and uh

1234
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,319
even good critical open-minded skeptics

1235
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,720
hear that go yeah that makes sense

1236
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:50,720
i get that i think that's what's

1237
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,319
important and um

1238
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:53,760
so yeah no i mean once you see the

1239
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:55,520
layers of bureaucracy involved in all

1240
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,560
this stuff

1241
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:59,440
you realize it's a very nuanced topic

1242
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,960
that

1243
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,640
it lacks a lot of the excitement people

1244
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:04,880
hope for in terms of

1245
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,400
like mj 12 cover-ups right topics

1246
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,800
oh we we will get to that tim for sure

1247
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:12,480
huh because there's another

1248
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:14,960
another set of documents that uh we're

1249
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,520
gonna talk about but before we get there

1250
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:19,599
yeah i think you're right it's like it's

1251
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:20,960
depressingly real

1252
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:23,920
is a way to put it um so a lot has

1253
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:24,480
happened

1254
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:26,319
to him since you know the a-tip

1255
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:28,160
revelations and everything we just

1256
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:28,960
discussed

1257
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:32,319
um up to the navy in regards to ufos

1258
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:35,520
and now we know that there were

1259
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,839
congressional meetings that took place

1260
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:40,079
and now a bill a bill trying to be

1261
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:41,839
passed concerning a

1262
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:44,720
ufo task force so i have to get your

1263
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,760
opinion on this

1264
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,880
could you maybe give us a little

1265
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:48,800
background on what this bill

1266
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,839
is tim and uh who's working on it and um

1267
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:53,599
you know with your knowledge of national

1268
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,640
security

1269
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:56,560
special access programs all this sort of

1270
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,160
stuff what do you feel

1271
00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:00,720
that uh what do you feel we can expect

1272
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:01,520
from this

1273
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,839
senate intelligence committee that we

1274
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:04,640
are now

1275
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:07,359
learning about sure yeah yeah this was

1276
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:08,640
what so what's come out

1277
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:12,000
in uh i guess it was june yeah

1278
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:13,680
is june is is we're getting ready for

1279
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,960
the fiscal years they're getting ready

1280
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:16,800
to do all the boring budget stuff

1281
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:20,400
and uh the senate select intelligence

1282
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:21,760
committee so this is made up of

1283
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:23,280
different representatives who are

1284
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:25,599
on this committee uh whose job is

1285
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:26,640
oversight and

1286
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,680
delegating um assignments tasks and

1287
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,079
and requests to the intelligence

1288
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,000
community which includes

1289
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:36,000
all the department offense the cia all

1290
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:38,560
everybody the the big scary ones the ufo

1291
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:39,599
community is afraid of

1292
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:43,119
and they included in the the

1293
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:46,560
fiscal year 2021 intelligence

1294
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,319
authorization act

1295
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:51,440
a provision requesting uh

1296
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,520
they first of all they specifically you

1297
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:55,200
know it was titled the advanced aerial

1298
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:56,079
threats

1299
00:44:02,950 --> 00:43:59,599
um so in terms of exciting news

1300
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,960
for for some people is that it again now

1301
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:05,040
it in no uncertain terms it put it in

1302
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,480
legislative language

1303
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,680
acknowledging that there was a uap

1304
00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:11,920
or unidentified aerial phenomena task

1305
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:12,800
force

1306
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:15,359
that was being run out of the office of

1307
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:16,480
naval intelligence

1308
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:19,680
is the who's heading up this this task

1309
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:21,839
force

1310
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:24,800
they were currently investigating uh ufo

1311
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,520
sightings

1312
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:27,359
and so you know this cooperated what

1313
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,599
we've been told um

1314
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:31,040
by all intents i think this is just a

1315
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:33,040
continuation of the same program

1316
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:35,200
in fact i know it is it's a continuation

1317
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,880
of the program that uh

1318
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:39,119
mr lozano was running up until he left

1319
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:40,400
in 2017.

1320
00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:42,000
and so that's real you know it's in

1321
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:44,079
legislative language but then

1322
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,359
a part of this provision is that uh

1323
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:48,800
they there was an expression that they

1324
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:50,480
were concerned

1325
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:55,200
in terms of what was the inter-agency

1326
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:57,920
cooperation in examining this so you

1327
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:58,240
know

1328
00:45:01,589 --> 00:45:00,000
is everybody talking with each other

1329
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:01,599
does the task force have the authority

1330
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,000
to

1331
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,960
and find out things you have the

1332
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,400
authority to reach out to the

1333
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:09,040
air force the cia or whoever and so they

1334
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:09,839
asked for

1335
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,240
kind of this is fairly normal is this is

1336
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,839
kind of this is part of the oversight

1337
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:15,440
process they want to know what is the

1338
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,079
status

1339
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:18,079
of this program right now all the you

1340
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:19,760
know how the collection methods are

1341
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,880
going

1342
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:23,119
what agencies are participating how well

1343
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,640
are they participating

1344
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:27,040
and what could or should we be doing

1345
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,680
better

1346
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:30,480
and uh it provided i think the most

1347
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,000
exciting thing for the public

1348
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,720
was it said uh you know the request

1349
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:36,720
specifically said that they wanted an

1350
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:40,319
unclassified report on all of this with

1351
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:43,280
a classified annex so if there's any

1352
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:44,720
classified information you put in that

1353
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,440
but

1354
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,760
we want this all to be unclassified so

1355
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:49,440
by nature that means it's public

1356
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,079
information

1357
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:52,319
you know its current status is it it was

1358
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,359
voted and

1359
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:55,440
passed unanimously in the intelligence

1360
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,280
committee so now it will

1361
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:59,520
go through all of that uh you know

1362
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,720
schoolhouse rock

1363
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,200
uh i'm a bill on capitol hill i'm i'm

1364
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,920
picturing that right now in my head yeah

1365
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:08,240
yep it's gotta go through the house and

1366
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,079
then the senate and everybody votes and

1367
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:12,079
if there's any disputes they bicker and

1368
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:12,960
try to

1369
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:15,839
uh work that out you know i i think with

1370
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:17,359
a pretty good high a pretty high degree

1371
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,200
of certainty i think it will pass

1372
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:21,839
because uh this specific request isn't

1373
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:22,400
uh

1374
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,400
it's just a request and it's there's no

1375
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:26,240
there's no money attached to it

1376
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,960
so there's not a funding thing uh and

1377
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:31,200
ufos aren't really a partisan issue

1378
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,720
you know it's you're not going to see it

1379
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:34,960
become a big feud between republicans

1380
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:36,079
and democrats over

1381
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:39,040
and so i don't i think it will stay in i

1382
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:40,480
think it'll be passed i think it'll get

1383
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,119
signed

1384
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:43,280
it's what comes next which will be

1385
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:44,480
interesting

1386
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:46,000
right and what do you think of that tip

1387
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:47,440
because i know a lot of people are

1388
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:48,480
really focusing

1389
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:51,440
on that uh unclassified part obviously

1390
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:52,400
as the public

1391
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:55,520
so yeah what do you make of it yeah

1392
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:57,440
and i gotta this is the time this is why

1393
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:59,119
you said people on ufo twitter or

1394
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:00,160
whatever will be like

1395
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:03,200
you know blasphemy burn the witch uh you

1396
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:03,680
know i

1397
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:07,040
i think that people should probably be

1398
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,800
pretty tempered in their expectations of

1399
00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:11,040
what an unclassified report

1400
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:13,040
is going to say or if it is even

1401
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:15,040
produced and everybody says but wait

1402
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:16,319
it's in the bill

1403
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:19,359
i go i know but um

1404
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,640
first thing's important is to understand

1405
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,440
that this is a request it is not a law

1406
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:26,000
so technically the director of national

1407
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,599
intelligence and o and i can say yeah

1408
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:29,920
thanks for your quest take care

1409
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:32,559
and not fulfill the request if that

1410
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:33,520
sounds crazy

1411
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:35,359
just you know do a little research about

1412
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,359
the department of defense

1413
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,359
budget audit i think they were requested

1414
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:41,440
to audit their budget in 1999.

1415
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:43,599
they're still waiting on that they're

1416
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:45,040
working on it it takes a while

1417
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:47,920
yeah so and the other thing is is that

1418
00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:49,119
i'm just saying

1419
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:50,640
this is where it's hard because i think

1420
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:53,440
people the ufo topic especially

1421
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:56,240
for people of even my generation so i'll

1422
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,960
be

1423
00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:59,200
how about you almost 40 in a year i got

1424
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,760
to be 39 this october so even you know

1425
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,319
born in the 80s we haven't seen a lot of

1426
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,720
the political ufo actions like you used

1427
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:08,160
to see back in the 60s

1428
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,440
um 70s this type of thing and so

1429
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:13,280
we're people maybe a little more excited

1430
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:14,880
about it than they

1431
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,960
maybe should be because at the end of

1432
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:18,240
the day

1433
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:22,559
if you have objects that are unknown

1434
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:24,160
and they're real so they're showing up

1435
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:26,400
on sensors you have visual sightings by

1436
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:26,880
train

1437
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,520
military personnel multiple sensors

1438
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:30,960
identifying these objects so there's no

1439
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,240
doubt in your mind these are real

1440
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:34,640
but you can't identify them and they're

1441
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:35,599
flying

1442
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:38,960
in proximity or over secured airspace

1443
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:42,640
secure facilities in combat areas

1444
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:45,920
this is an unmitigated vulnerability

1445
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:49,359
to national defense and i know

1446
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,240
you know people are going to be like

1447
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:52,640
what no the space brothers they love us

1448
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:56,000
i okay i got that but unfortunately

1449
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:58,000
at least from everything that i know

1450
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:59,599
from the defense side the space brothers

1451
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:00,880
have not conveyed that

1452
00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:03,040
to the military and so when

1453
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:04,640
vulnerabilities national defense are

1454
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,280
things that are

1455
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:07,599
very very very very very very classified

1456
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:08,720
they're not discussed

1457
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,800
for very obvious reasons right you know

1458
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,800
you're not going to say hey guys

1459
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,559
that new stuff that you know russia

1460
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:16,319
china iran's scott

1461
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:20,000
that would kick our ass so this is not

1462
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,800
what happens and so until those are

1463
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,839
mitigated risk

1464
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,079
and so till those vulnerabilities until

1465
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:27,920
you have some understanding of what it

1466
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,240
is

1467
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:31,520
and then uh are able to

1468
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:33,839
you feel confident that risk associated

1469
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:35,200
with that can be mitigated those are

1470
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:36,400
highly classified

1471
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,440
and so everything we see right now

1472
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,760
is encouraging for anybody who's ever

1473
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:43,520
been ridiculed for

1474
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,200
being interested in the ufo subject for

1475
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,960
having their own siding for saying that

1476
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:48,000
these are real

1477
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:51,119
it is being treated very much like it is

1478
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:51,760
real

1479
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:58,720
meaning from the defense and military

1480
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:00,240
side it's going

1481
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:04,079
to be treated that way and um so i guess

1482
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,079
i'll have to default background and say

1483
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:08,720
in terms of what we will actually see

1484
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,800
from a rep unclassified report i don't

1485
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:12,640
know i wouldn't

1486
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:15,599
right now get my hopes up and believe

1487
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:17,760
that we're going to see

1488
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:20,559
incredible you know videos and

1489
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:21,760
incredible data

1490
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:25,119
and uh you know greg roswell wreckage

1491
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:25,440
and

1492
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,200
foresee that happen

1493
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,520
but with some tempered expectations and

1494
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,280
recognizing okay this is being treated

1495
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:35,200
as a real subject

1496
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:38,400
maybe even just the a report saying

1497
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:41,680
this number of uap events

1498
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:44,880
occurred under this period of time

1499
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:47,280
that in itself for me i think is

1500
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,160
impressive

1501
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,480
because just kind of understanding what

1502
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,359
goes on into the national defense

1503
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:55,680
spear of things if you can the idea that

1504
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,200
you could have multiple

1505
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,040
uh sightings of something like this are

1506
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:01,119
multiple events that are unidentified

1507
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,280
on multiple different sensor systems

1508
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:04,800
that's impressive

1509
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,760
and that's not you know that's if a

1510
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:08,960
foreign adversary

1511
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:12,400
terrestrial origin has that that's

1512
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:13,359
impressive

1513
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:16,880
because there's i mean it's just

1514
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,559
you almost hope it's aliens at that

1515
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,640
point right yeah that's what that's what

1516
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:22,640
senator rubio who was the designer of

1517
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:23,040
the

1518
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:28,160
his name's on it and that's what he said

1519
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:29,119
i

1520
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:59,119
and hype

1521
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:01,119
for something that people have been

1522
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,480
waiting for maybe

1523
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,640
for the last six months or so and that

1524
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:06,559
was the new york times article a lot of

1525
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,119
us thought

1526
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,160
nope it's not happening it did happen

1527
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:12,640
so kudos to those who said it was going

1528
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,920
to but um

1529
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:16,240
it may not have been what a lot of us

1530
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,040
expected

1531
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:20,000
or wanted but um some people hated it

1532
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:21,040
some people didn't

1533
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:23,920
but as of this recording now we have two

1534
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:24,319
new

1535
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,319
out tim so i got to ask your opinion on

1536
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:30,079
this what did you take away

1537
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:32,640
from either of these articles and this

1538
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:33,680
talk of

1539
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:37,520
off-world vehicles that just has gone

1540
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:40,160
insane in the mainstream and the

1541
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:41,680
alternative

1542
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:44,000
uh media yeah what do you make of the

1543
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:45,839
new york times articles tim

1544
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:48,559
okay yeah no i and count me as one of

1545
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:49,920
the people who never doubted it was

1546
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:50,400
coming

1547
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:54,480
group of people jumping up and down

1548
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,119
saying

1549
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,760
kind of like i just did for this uh

1550
00:53:02,390 --> 00:52:59,359
unclassified report of that

1551
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:02,400
provision to say hey guys we need to we

1552
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:03,760
need to calm down a little bit

1553
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:05,119
because i don't think it's going to be

1554
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,800
what you think it's going to be so first

1555
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:07,440
of all

1556
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:10,079
you know i'll give my overall impression

1557
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,119
and this is no

1558
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:14,000
disrespect to the writers or anybody if

1559
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:15,599
they're open to critique just like i am

1560
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:17,040
for any of my work as well

1561
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:18,400
it really does go back to what i was

1562
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:20,400
just saying about the idea of

1563
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:22,640
treating this subject as the real world

1564
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:25,200
and maybe not as much

1565
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,280
of the fantasy or as excitement as we've

1566
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:29,359
seen in the ufo community or

1567
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,920
in fiction or anything else and that is

1568
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:33,599
for me i think

1569
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:36,880
if you're going to cover something

1570
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:40,079
that is discussing crashed ufos

1571
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:43,440
or off-world technologies or off-world

1572
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:45,520
crafts i think is how they termed it

1573
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:49,040
that's really freaking huge that's a

1574
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:52,400
big deal and especially if you're

1575
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:53,359
talking about

1576
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:55,520
the because the you know i don't think

1577
00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:56,720
it was overtly said

1578
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:58,880
but the implicit implication here is

1579
00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:00,160
that there's a government cover-up

1580
00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:02,000
uh you know never said roswell i don't

1581
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,680
think in that article but everybody was

1582
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:05,359
like uh-huh we know where that came from

1583
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,119
yeah if you're talking about that i mean

1584
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:11,760
it's so not only the idea that that okay

1585
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:12,480
no no no

1586
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:15,040
this is real ladies and gentlemen

1587
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:15,920
something of

1588
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,599
another origin has you know visited

1589
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,119
earth conclusively

1590
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:23,119
and crashed and here's the physical

1591
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:24,720
evidence for certain

1592
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:27,920
that's you know in my opinion would be

1593
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:30,880
the the only the greatest discovery of

1594
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:33,440
mankind next to the advent of language

1595
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,319
in terms of changing our entire world

1596
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,359
views and

1597
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:39,760
society world as we know it life that's

1598
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,720
a big deal

1599
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:42,480
if you're going to bring in this idea

1600
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,839
that the government has covered that up

1601
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:45,200
as well

1602
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:48,480
now you're talking about something that

1603
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,760
you know you're talking about

1604
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,280
just kind of shattering of faith in

1605
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:52,960
government which there's already we've

1606
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:53,920
seen it in

1607
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:57,280
past four years or so coming up

1608
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:58,640
there's already kind of a mistrust in

1609
00:55:01,190 --> 00:55:00,000
government the mistrust in government is

1610
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:01,200
inherent in any

1611
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:04,160
democracies and so but you're talking

1612
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,040
about

1613
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:07,599
watergate times a thousand you know i

1614
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:08,799
mean

1615
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,599
lying deception all sorts of different

1616
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:13,920
things and i think any of the reasons

1617
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:14,640
for why

1618
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:17,040
if that occur are going to be hard for

1619
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:18,880
people to swallow or accept

1620
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,920
so again this that's a really big

1621
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,200
freaking deal

1622
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:25,920
and so i think if you're from my point

1623
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,119
of view if you're going to bring that

1624
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:29,520
into the into the public domain if

1625
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:30,400
you're going to bring that in and

1626
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,160
present a case for that you got a damn

1627
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:34,480
well present case for it and it's got to

1628
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:34,880
be

1629
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,520
said

1630
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:42,079
it in the court of public opinion it is

1631
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:42,640
going to

1632
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,119
render a verdict that yes this is true

1633
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:47,119
beyond any reasonable but out

1634
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:49,920
and so uh it's not just the height that

1635
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:50,480
went in

1636
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,920
to going into there that this was going

1637
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,599
to be the big revelation

1638
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:55,200
it was even the content i'm going to

1639
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:56,880
stay with there is that i

1640
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,960
i don't think that the case for this

1641
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,400
being true

1642
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,880
was presented well it wasn't you know

1643
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:04,480
there wasn't enough evidence to support

1644
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:05,520
that and then

1645
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:08,640
you know unfortunately there were a lot

1646
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:09,200
of little

1647
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,960
silly kind of errors i think that maybe

1648
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:12,640
shouldn't have been

1649
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:16,000
um it definitely didn't help the case no

1650
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:19,040
no you know and senator harry reid you

1651
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:19,440
know

1652
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:21,359
coming out not only them having to make

1653
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:23,440
the correction the times having to to

1654
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:25,920
write a footnote correction in terms of

1655
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:28,400
what they had attributed to him

1656
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:31,119
but he you know coming out with a pretty

1657
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:31,520
full

1658
00:56:36,390 --> 00:56:34,720
fl throttle rebuke saying he

1659
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:36,400
had never said this and didn't believe

1660
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:38,960
this that was really interesting to me

1661
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:42,160
yeah you know it does speak to the fact

1662
00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:44,319
that it comes back to that debate always

1663
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,599
tim is connecting alien to the ufo

1664
00:56:50,789 --> 00:56:49,680
and the ufo to the alien it's it's

1665
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:50,799
something we in this

1666
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:53,599
field quote unquote have tried to uh

1667
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:55,359
separate them for

1668
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:58,480
decades now that we're not saying it's

1669
00:57:02,950 --> 00:56:59,760
aliens we're saying it's an

1670
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:02,960
unidentified aerial phenomena so yeah

1671
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,079
yeah yeah i was really surprised that

1672
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:08,240
with harry reid's response only because

1673
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:09,520
you know i was thinking of it from my

1674
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,480
perspective

1675
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:13,119
and this was something i was i was doing

1676
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,359
going into this i realized that

1677
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:17,440
if i'm gonna put it out there to the

1678
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:18,880
masses that a

1679
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:21,760
former senate majority leader 30-year

1680
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,559
veteran

1681
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:25,440
of uh congress former member of the

1682
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:26,000
intelligence

1683
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:27,520
community former member of the gang of

1684
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:29,119
eight which the gang of eight for

1685
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:30,480
anybody who's not aware of the gang of

1686
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,799
eight

1687
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:32,720
uh armed services and intelligence these

1688
00:57:37,349 --> 00:57:34,319
are the eight

1689
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,359
highest officials in

1690
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:39,839
the uh elected u.s government these are

1691
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:40,559
the eight

1692
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:43,839
individuals in which they have access to

1693
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:47,040
all classified programs across all

1694
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,079
branches of government so this is your

1695
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:52,319
uh yeah if there's a majestic 12 there

1696
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:53,520
are eight of them okay

1697
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:56,319
so this is if you're gonna go on record

1698
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,520
with somebody that

1699
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:59,359
once held that i think he held that he

1700
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:00,880
was in the gang and vape for seven years

1701
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:03,520
i believe when he was majority leader so

1702
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:06,240
essentially this is a guy who would know

1703
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:07,359
if that was true

1704
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:10,000
and so yeah if you're going to attribute

1705
00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:10,559
him

1706
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:12,079
as saying because i think originally

1707
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,680
they said that he maybe

1708
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:16,079
knew that they had recovered stuff and

1709
00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:17,280
people were studying it

1710
00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:19,760
you better be sure that you know even if

1711
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:21,440
you want to walk that back later like

1712
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:22,880
you've got it in writing you've got it

1713
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,599
recorded

1714
00:58:26,950 --> 00:58:25,280
yeah i'm gonna be like no no no no you

1715
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:26,960
said this buddy you know

1716
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,480
yeah i mean that i mean that's a big

1717
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:30,240
deal it's a really big deal

1718
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:33,520
it is and it's you know it's it's kind

1719
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:35,440
of sad that we see i mean

1720
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,160
let's be completely upfront and honest

1721
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:40,240
reid is getting up there he's battling

1722
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:41,280
cancer

1723
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:44,319
and um you know him like many

1724
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:47,359
politicians and members of government

1725
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,680
there's a legacy to be left behind that

1726
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:51,040
they try to

1727
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:54,079
keep intact so you do have to wonder

1728
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:56,559
does he know more than he's letting on

1729
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:58,720
like luis elizondo has even

1730
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:00,640
personally stated he knows much more

1731
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:03,599
than he can say to the public or on

1732
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:06,000
television or with even with to the

1733
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:06,640
stars

1734
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,480
and that's why they're disseminating the

1735
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,640
information in the ways they are

1736
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:12,480
is to hopefully get some of that out you

1737
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,400
know that's a whole other conversation

1738
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,799
in terms of truth and fiction being

1739
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:18,000
melded together but

1740
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,480
uh with reed tim i think you're right

1741
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:22,960
like if this guy really was that high up

1742
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,000
and had carp launched to literally

1743
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:28,240
everything our intelligence communities

1744
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:29,520
possess uh

1745
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:32,799
it's troubling to think he still needs

1746
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:33,280
to

1747
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:37,119
investigate ufos but he probably knows

1748
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:37,760
more than

1749
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:39,599
literally anyone else on the planet

1750
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,680
about it sure no no yeah i mean is the

1751
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:43,280
term is the us government no absolutely

1752
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:44,880
i mean there's no doubt in my mind

1753
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:47,359
senator harry reid knows much more about

1754
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,040
it all the way across the board

1755
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:52,160
what those truths are i don't know

1756
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:55,119
and why does he makes a little green men

1757
00:59:59,109 --> 00:59:56,880
comment you know it's

1758
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:59,119
that's where i'm like uh well that's

1759
01:00:02,950 --> 01:00:00,079
kind of depressing

1760
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:02,960
if he does know that much and he's still

1761
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:03,359
saying

1762
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,880
we're not dealing with little green men

1763
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:06,720
when it comes to all this uh

1764
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:09,920
there goes 99 of the

1765
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:11,760
hardcore believers out there that were

1766
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,319
dealing with an alien phenomenon sure

1767
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:15,839
and

1768
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:18,319
you know i think that probably some of

1769
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:19,200
his

1770
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:20,720
rebuke was and i'm not going to

1771
01:00:22,390 --> 01:00:22,079
associate on what he knows or doesn't

1772
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:22,400
know

1773
01:00:27,430 --> 01:00:26,160
it up but i'll say that maybe some of

1774
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:27,440
that was frustration

1775
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:29,119
it was shared by a lot of personal

1776
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:30,720
friends and other people that i've met

1777
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,480
you know over the past year who come

1778
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:34,240
from really

1779
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:37,839
credential backgrounds from academic

1780
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,359
community and science who you you

1781
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:40,880
wouldn't think would be interested in

1782
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:41,359
this but

1783
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:42,640
they enter in there they're very very

1784
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,480
interested because

1785
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,319
stuff like this bill provision the fact

1786
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,640
that when you have a politician like

1787
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,640
marco rubio let's put his we can put his

1788
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:52,559
politics aside but the fact that

1789
01:00:55,589 --> 01:00:54,079
he's coming out and discussing it you

1790
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:55,599
know like you mentioned politicians are

1791
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:56,720
careful with their words because they

1792
01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:57,760
can come back and haunt them

1793
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:00,400
the fact that he's okay saying uh yeah i

1794
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,920
know this is real we need to look into

1795
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:03,119
it and we know that

1796
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,880
they receive briefings that makes a

1797
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:06,319
tangible makes it interesting it makes

1798
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:06,640
it

1799
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,000
object

1800
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:12,240
of scrutiny and study for normal

1801
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:14,000
mainstream science nobody needs to feel

1802
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:16,000
weird or fringe by it but i think

1803
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:19,520
that bringing in the kind of crashed uh

1804
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:22,480
ufo thing i think part of his part of

1805
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:23,359
his rebuttal was

1806
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,480
probably that that would allow for

1807
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:28,640
the more fantastic side of things to

1808
01:01:32,549 --> 01:01:29,520
come into it

1809
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:32,559
which may not be true and most

1810
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:33,680
importantly i

1811
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:36,799
think it probably gives this impression

1812
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:39,119
to the public and the ufo community

1813
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:40,799
definitely has it the us government may

1814
01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:41,440
know a lot

1815
01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:44,160
more but i don't know that they have an

1816
01:01:48,710 --> 01:01:45,680
answer for what

1817
01:01:50,789 --> 01:01:48,720
where why yeah that in itself

1818
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:50,799
you know i think that that's could be

1819
01:01:54,309 --> 01:01:52,480
scary you know wait

1820
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:54,319
they cannot say no no it's real we don't

1821
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:55,599
have anything crash

1822
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:57,280
or yeah we do have stuff crashed but we

1823
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,799
don't know what the hell this is

1824
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:00,799
we don't know how it works we don't know

1825
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:02,240
where it's from uh

1826
01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:04,559
we don't know which is a stunning

1827
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:05,280
admission

1828
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:07,839
and i mean even the dod said yes these

1829
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:09,760
are aerial phenomena we can't explain we

1830
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,039
don't know what they are

1831
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:13,440
the videos are legitimate that that is

1832
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:15,520
concerning and it is kind of a

1833
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:17,200
a turn of the tide tim i would say

1834
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:19,200
because for years whether it's project

1835
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,400
blue book or

1836
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:22,880
whatever um you want to pull up with

1837
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:23,440
that

1838
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,640
the government has always just denied

1839
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:29,119
the phenomenon because you know that's

1840
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:30,559
the easiest way to say

1841
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:33,039
nothing here to see it's all explainable

1842
01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:34,480
um moving on

1843
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:37,280
um but you know there is that that whole

1844
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:38,400
that whole thing of

1845
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:41,359
yeah maybe the government uh doesn't

1846
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:41,920
know

1847
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,359
but they can at least control the

1848
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:45,200
information that gets out to the public

1849
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:48,880
so yeah it is a constant dance or

1850
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:52,079
um boxing matches it when it comes to it

1851
01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:52,799
all i think

1852
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:54,720
but you bring it back too that like

1853
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,319
people like marco rubio

1854
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,720
now that he's connected to this man like

1855
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:00,480
there is no getting out it's like being

1856
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:03,520
in the mafia yeah no i just

1857
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:05,440
recently i mean this is a good example

1858
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:07,839
just with rubio i just saw a campaign ad

1859
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:08,640
you know obviously we have the

1860
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:11,039
reelection campaign coming up where uh

1861
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:12,720
you know senator rubio was at one point

1862
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,480
a republican candidate for president and

1863
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:16,799
so they're replaying him at one of his

1864
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:17,359
rallies

1865
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,440
saying you know you can't trust trump

1866
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,119
and don't vote for you know so i mean

1867
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:23,119
his words are coming back to haunt him

1868
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:24,640
and yeah no so

1869
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:28,079
and rubio is a well-known politician

1870
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:30,000
uh you know that senate select committee

1871
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:31,760
if you really look at who is all on it i

1872
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:32,880
mean it's

1873
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:35,200
most of them are people names that

1874
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:36,079
people would know

1875
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:38,559
kamala harris is on that you know a once

1876
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:39,200
democratic

1877
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:40,960
candidate for president in this current

1878
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:42,640
cycle and so there

1879
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:44,880
is a very powerful committee and so yeah

1880
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,720
the willingness to

1881
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,480
uh for them to put their names behind it

1882
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,319
the willingness to vote to approve it

1883
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,079
the willingness to discuss it openly and

1884
01:03:56,309 --> 01:03:54,319
in what little bit they have

1885
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,319
is very interesting because they they

1886
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:58,160
have received briefings we know that

1887
01:04:01,430 --> 01:04:00,480
they've acknowledged that and so they're

1888
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,440
real enough

1889
01:04:05,430 --> 01:04:04,480
and it's tangible enough that um they

1890
01:04:06,309 --> 01:04:05,440
don't think it's gonna come back and

1891
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:06,319
haunt them but they're not gonna be

1892
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:07,039
ridiculed

1893
01:04:11,589 --> 01:04:09,839
for for supporting this and i mean it

1894
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:11,599
should it probably won't but but it all

1895
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:12,799
but puts

1896
01:04:16,789 --> 01:04:15,520
a nail in the coffin for this idea that

1897
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:16,799
this is all some kind of

1898
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:19,599
you know disinformation psyop campaign

1899
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:21,920
or something because

1900
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:24,960
of being illegal political suicide very

1901
01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:28,319
very good point man yeah politicians are

1902
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:30,160
always looking to dodge that political

1903
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:31,039
suicide

1904
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,319
no matter what it entails but um

1905
01:04:38,789 --> 01:04:36,960
you did mention uh disinformation now

1906
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:38,799
this is something i want to

1907
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:42,160
tackle with you here besides all of the

1908
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:44,240
recent new york times discussion you

1909
01:04:47,710 --> 01:04:45,680
said powerful people

1910
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:47,720
admiral wilson

1911
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:50,480
[Music]

1912
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:53,119
hey listeners ryan here dropping in i

1913
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:53,520
know

1914
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:55,520
things were just ramping up but you're

1915
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:57,359
gonna have to wait till next week for

1916
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:58,079
part two

1917
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,000
of our discussion with tim mcmillan

1918
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:02,160
we'll be covering the hotly debated

1919
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:05,039
wilson davis memo and just exactly what

1920
01:05:07,910 --> 01:05:05,599
it is

1921
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:07,920
if it's real and its place in this

1922
01:05:11,589 --> 01:05:08,640
entire

1923
01:05:12,630 --> 01:05:11,599
off-world vehicles revelation brought

1924
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:12,640
forth recently

1925
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:15,359
in the new york times then tim and i

1926
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:16,079
discuss

1927
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:19,440
bob lazar after over 30 years

1928
01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:22,400
of being discredited and scrutinized for

1929
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,440
his claims

1930
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:26,880
of having worked on ufos near area 51

1931
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:29,920
has lazar finally been vindicated with

1932
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:31,200
all the recent news of

1933
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:34,400
ufo wreckage and materials and what if

1934
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:36,400
he did possess the mysterious

1935
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:40,400
element 115 tim then gives us the inside

1936
01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:42,720
scoop on his work on the history channel

1937
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:43,920
television series

1938
01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:46,720
unidentified and then we answer some of

1939
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:47,119
your

1940
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:49,839
burning listener questions it's an

1941
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:52,240
explosive part 2 that is available

1942
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:55,200
right now as an early addition to all

1943
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:57,280
patreon subscribers

1944
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:59,599
so if you don't want to wait until next

1945
01:06:02,470 --> 01:06:01,760
monday hop on over to the patreon

1946
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:02,480
campaign

1947
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:04,559
and help support the show and listen

1948
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:05,520
right now

1949
01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:08,880
visit patreon.com somewhereskies to

1950
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:09,760
learn more

1951
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:14,000
again that's patreon.com somewhereskies

1952
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:15,920
thank you to everyone who helped make

1953
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:18,880
the book launch a massive success

1954
01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:21,119
we hit four different number one

1955
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:22,079
categories

1956
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:24,880
both in new releases and best sellers on

1957
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:26,000
amazon

1958
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:27,920
be sure to check out the new edition of

1959
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:29,200
somewhere in the skies

1960
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:32,319
a human approach to the ufo phenomenon

1961
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:35,039
available on amazon and on the barnes

1962
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:35,599
noble

1963
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:38,480
online bookstore if you have a print

1964
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copy

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or ebook please also consider being part

1966
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:42,480
of our

1967
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:45,440
book selfie campaign post a photo with

1968
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the book

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and tag me on facebook twitter or

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instagram

1971
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:51,440
and you'll be entered into a contest to

1972
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:52,240
receive all

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01:06:58,470 --> 01:06:55,599
bonus episodes for free for life

1974
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this should be fun no matter what i will

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see you here

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next week for part two of our discussion

1977
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with tim mcmillan

1978
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and as always keep your feet on the

1979
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ground but never stop searching

1980
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somewhere in the skies

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

1984
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somewhere in the skies is produced by

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third kind productions in association